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Talkback:157/dokopnik.html

[ In reference to "Book Review: CUPS Administrative Guide" in LG#157 ]

Neil Youngman [ny at youngman.org.uk]


Fri, 5 Dec 2008 10:25:16 +0000

One for pedants corner here.

I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the administration of computers?

Neil


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Rick Moen [rick at linuxmafia.com]


Fri, 5 Dec 2008 02:41:26 -0800

Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):

> One for pedants corner here.
> 
> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
> where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many
> technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use
> administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the
> administration of computers?

It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software, possibly not. However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.


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Deividson Okopnik [deivid.okop at gmail.com]


Fri, 5 Dec 2008 09:05:10 -0300

2008/12/5 Rick Moen <[email protected]>:

> Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):
>
>> One for pedants corner here.
>>
>> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
>> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
>> where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many
>> technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use
>> administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the
>> administration of computers?
>
> It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software,
> possibly not.  However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in
> the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
>

In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative - plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to basically the same thing in Portuguese.


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René Pfeiffer [lynx at luchs.at]


Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:47:21 +0100

On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said:

> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <[email protected]>:
> > Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):
> >
> >> One for pedants corner here.
> >>
> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
> >> where this variant came from. [...]
> >
> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software,
> > possibly not.  However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in
> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
>
> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative -
> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to
> basically the same thing in Portuguese.

I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native German speakers speaking English.

Best, René.


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Jimmy O'Regan [joregan at gmail.com]


Fri, 5 Dec 2008 17:08:48 +0000

2008/12/5 René Pfeiffer <[email protected]>:

> On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said:
>> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <[email protected]>:
>> > Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):
>> >
>> >> One for pedants corner here.
>> >>
>> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
>> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
>> >> where this variant came from. [...]
>> >
>> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software,
>> > possibly not.  However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in
>> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
>>
>> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative -
>> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to
>> basically the same thing in Portuguese.
>
> I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German
> "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to
> "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native
> German speakers speaking English.
>

No; it's not at all a non-native English speaker's mistake, it's simply an English-speaker's mistake[1] :)

It's simply a false derivation: 'administration', particularly in this context, is simply more common than 'administer'. As people are more familiar with the noun, they apply a verb derivation rule, and produce 'administrate', unaware that, properly, the noun 'administration' is a derivative of the verb 'administer'[2] -- in short, being able to come up with 'administrate' hints at a good command of English grammar, but with a small lapse in vocabulary.

[1] I saw 'configurate' written today by a woman I am sure speaks only English.

[2] Yeah, yeah, Latin this, Latin that :)


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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]


Sat, 6 Dec 2008 08:43:34 -0500

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 05:08:48PM +0000, Jimmy O'Regan wrote:

> 2008/12/5 René Pfeiffer <[email protected]>:
> > On Dec 05, 2008 at 0905 -0300, Deividson Okopnik appeared and said:
> >> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <[email protected]>:
> >> > Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):
> >> >
> >> >> One for pedants corner here.
> >> >>
> >> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
> >> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
> >> >> where this variant came from. [...]
> >> >
> >> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software,
> >> > possibly not.  However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in
> >> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
> >>
> >> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative -
> >> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to
> >> basically the same thing in Portuguese.
> >
> > I could also have its origin from native German speakers. In German
> > "administering" means "administrieren" which is very close to
> > "administrating". I also heard this variant frequently from native
> > German speakers speaking English.
> >
> 
> No; it's not at all a non-native English speaker's mistake, it's
> simply an English-speaker's mistake[1] :)

One of the standard Okopnik household language-perversion snarks is "I be conversatiatin'."

No, we did not come up with it. The Katly One had to parse it and type it out while working as a transcription operator for the deaf.

-- 
* Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *


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Chris Bannister [mockingbird at earthlight.co.nz]


Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:44:44 +1300

On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:05:10AM -0300, Deividson Okopnik wrote:

> 2008/12/5 Rick Moen <[email protected]>:
> > Quoting Neil Youngman ([email protected]):
> >
> >> One for pedants corner here.
> >>
> >> I noticed the use if the verb "administrating" in the article, where
> >> to me the natural verb is "administering" and I started to wonder
> >> where this variant came from. I have seen this before in many
> >> technical articles and I would like to know whether all USians use
> >> administrate instead of administer, or whether it is specific to the
> >> administration of computers?
> >
> > It appears to be a (rare, recent) neologism, possibly from software,
> > possibly not.  However, thankfully, it is not in widespread use in
> > the USA or anywhere else of my acquaintance.
> >
> 
> In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative -
> plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to
> basically the same thing in Portuguese.

You can administer medicine but not administrate medicine.

-- 
Chris.
======
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god
than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other
possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.
                                           -- Stephen F Roberts


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Ben Okopnik [ben at linuxgazette.net]


Fri, 12 Dec 2008 10:17:55 -0500

On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 08:44:44PM +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 09:05:10AM -0300, Deividson Okopnik wrote:
> > 
> > In my case it came from a mix of the book title - Administrative -
> > plus the fact both administrating and administering translate to
> > basically the same thing in Portuguese.
> 
> You can administer medicine but not administrate medicine.

ben@Tyr:~$ A="%22administer a system%22"
ben@Tyr:~$ lynx -dump -nolist "http://www.google.com/search?num=$results&hl=$lang&as_qdr=all&q=$A&btnG=Google+Search"|grep '^ *Results'
    Results 1 - 10 of about 12,600 for "administer a system". (0.18
ben@Tyr:~$ A="%22administrate a system%22"
ben@Tyr:~$ lynx -dump -nolist "http://www.google.com/search?num=$results&hl=$lang&as_qdr=all&q=$A&btnG=Google+Search"|grep '^ *Results'
    Results 1 - 10 of about 75 for "administrate a system". (0.12

I.e., 12600 for 'administer' and 75 for 'administrate'. I think that people are taking "system administration" as a departure point and then converting it to "administrate a system" - incorrectly, in my opinion, perhaps primarily because it sounds so clunky - instead of "administer a system". There's something rather appealing in the image of someone "(ad)ministering to a system", anyway; it invokes the image of a kind nurse [1] rather than that of someone with a large stake-driving mallet, a running chainsaw, and a hell of an uncompromising attitude.

[1] Of course, we all know that the spirit of Simon Travaglia's creation still lives on and that the latter is far more likely to be true... but, y'know, we wouldn't have jobs if the cash customers ever found out, so we've got to keep up the pretense. :)

-- 
* Ben Okopnik * Editor-in-Chief, Linux Gazette * http://LinuxGazette.NET *


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